Post-Recruitment Reflections
The Ten Most Ridiculous Questions We Heard From This Year’s Interviews
- Your candidacy is not credible. I don’t believe that you’ll be at this firm in 5 years. This is a business firm and you clearly care about human rights.
- Wow, you read someone’s CV and have an idea of what they’ll be like, and then they walk through the curtain and it’s a total surprise!
- Will you play guitar for us?
- I see you do Indian dancing. Will you show us?
- [About the candidate’s friend, who works at the firm]: Are you really friends with that person? How good of friends would you say you are?
- Interviewer One: Do you have any questions for us?
Candidate: [Starts asking question] –
Interviewer Two: I’m gonna stop you there. You seem like a smart person. So why did you get a C in torts?
- What does [candidate’s hometown] mean to you? Like, what kind of feeling?
- I didn’t want to come to this restaurant because it is in a gentrified area. What are your thoughts on gentrification?
- [At an infirm dinner, after the interview made an assumption about the candidate’s religious affiliation]: Are your parents okay with you dating a Catholic? What about if you dated a Muslim or a Jew?
- Did we interview your boyfriend last week? (Interviewer was referencing candidate’s ex-boyfriend who attended another school). Why should we hire you and not him?
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
Here we present a selection of responses, anonymously collected, about the formal 2L Recruit. We asked candidates to share their sentiments about the structure of the process, whether that be the application, on-campus interview, or in-firm stage of the recruit. We received a high volume of submissions, and the responses below demonstrate the range and prevailing attitudes of respondents. The Editors disclaim that these responses reflect the views of OBITER DICTA.
Dear Obiter,
I received no offer despite my high-A average. I am involved in plenty of extra curriculars, and I legal work experience, relatable interests — you name it.
Too many firms skirt the grey area of (what I believe is) acceptable conduct. When Firm A seems pretty nonchalant, and Firm B is giving you positive, overt signals, of course you have to decide which one you will spend more time with. And unsurprisingly, when Firm A drops you after not attending their reception (because you logically went to Firm B’s), and Firm B gives you the impression that your phone will be ringing at 5pm, it seems wrong when no one calls in the end. But of course, don’t you dare tell more than one firm that they’re your top choice, because your reputation will be ruined. Why are we bound by the rules when they can do whatever they want? That seems perverse to me.
Looking back, I would’ve told every firm what they wanted to hear and played dirty just like they did, because that’s the only way to come out with an offer.
–Rebellious Keener
Dear Obiter,
The process was stressful but fair. No firm pressured me to say first choice, but I do think saying first choice solidified my chances with the firm I who ended up making me an offer. I had to work hard to get all my interviews and meals to align so that I could get as much face time as possible with each firm.
You have to be flexible. The firm I ended up getting my offer from asked me for an impromptu meal on Wednesday that I think sealed the deal for me. I almost considered not going in on Wednesday because they told me it was optional, and I probably would not have gotten an offer if I had taken that suggestion.
On the other hand, some firms played the game more than others. I was invited back for third interviews with three firms that all strongly hinted that I was in contention, and I never heard from them. That could have been the luck of the draw. I think I would feel a lot more upset if I hadn’t gotten an offer from an excellent firm.
-Options Trader
Dear Obiter,
The process is exhausting, but could be extremely rewarding. The recruit is an opportunity to introspect, to understand where your priorities lie, to learn what kind of environment fits you, and to just know your life well enough to explain it — all of these help you in a way that goes beyond the recruit itself.
People stress out unnecessarily about the in-firm process. Employers are sweet, everyone was extremely considerate of my time, no one pressured me to say first choice and in fact, I did not say first choice to anybody because I only realized who my first choice was in the blackout period!
By the end of the three days, I still felt like I didn’t have enough information to actually make a decision, but that might just stem from me being in the privileged position of having more than one option. That being said, firms went out of their way to try and help me during this process. And by help, I really mean help – no pressure of any sort.
I feel like people read too much into this process, I remember a lawstudents.ca discussion post on whether one could order a Coke at a meal with a firm – surprisingly enough, that’s what I did at one of my meals and it didn’t invite any adverse reaction, because so did the lawyers. No one is looking at you with the microscopic vision you think you’re going to be looked at before you start the process. Everyone’s human, everyone’s kind, everyone’s been there before.
-Chaotic Good
Dear Obiter,
This is a strange game. It’s like the most toxic form of dating. Students who sincerely want to do cool work for firms they like have to manipulate their words to intentionally lead employers on. Reveal too much too soon, and the employer will give up the “chase.” The employers, for their part, frequently do the same, leaving students guessing until 5:00pm on Wednesday — and then 5:01, then 5:02, then 5:05, then 5:15, until eventually the student realizes that they’ve been unsuccessful in spite of the positive signs.
Even the lucky ones are not spared the process; it drains the soul to engage in such cat-and-mouse flirtation, especially in what should, theoretically, be a professional process designed to help the best candidates find firms that appeal to them, and vice versa.
Much like watching a friend go through a toxic relationship, it’s hard to be there for them or to know what to say — no easier when you yourself are going through the process, and no easier whether they are “successful” or not. If love is war, then so too was recruitment.
Perhaps that is the real point of OCIs: to remind law students that there are no true “winners”, only survivors. Everyone is destroyed by this process (except, I presume, the firms, who must relish these sick games to participate in year after year). One of my friends broke into tears after turning down her second-choice (even though it was because she had been offered her first). And in the end, when we all return to class, the only thing bringing students back together is the fact that we were all utterly and completely torn apart.
-Irate on a Date
Dear Obiter,
In-firms are a risky time. I elected to turn down the firms waiting on me to decide whether or not I would succumb to the clear pressure they were putting on me, but I realized that in doing so, I was opening myself to getting completely screwed over. I made it abundantly clear to my second choice that that’s where they stood, and I knew that if my number one decided to pull a fast one on me, I’d be left jobless. Thankfully, that never happened, and I wound up benefiting from being gracious to the recruiters I politely and reasonably declined. They’re in a really terrible spot, trying to make “real” relationships with us while advancing the business-oriented agendas of their firms. There’s only so much kindness you can be shown before you start to question whether or not it’s genuine.
It’s ultimately a serious gamble, and it takes no prisoners. There are people who didn’t get jobs that I was floored to hear had been left un-hired – I think these firms are out of their minds in some serious ways. Landing your dream job is a bit bittersweet when you realize that you did so through a process that leaves deserving people behind. It’s important to remember that walking away with a job means that you deserved it too.
In terms of the OCI process, I think that’s a decent way of getting a first look at someone, but only because reasonable alternatives are not available. I would not have the CV or the grades to be offered an in-firm without being able to actually speak to someone about who I was first. Some law schools don’t get to participate in OCIs, and I think that’s a loss for those students. Getting the chance to become more than you are on paper is a huge deal for those of us who don’t necessarily come to life on the page. It’s the best that firms can do considering how much time is available.
Frankly, it’s the law schools that need to do a better job of preparing students for what’s to come. Osgoode didn’t give me the information I needed, it was other students who did. There are so many better ways to communicate how this process will work and what its purpose is, and if that’s done correctly, then I imagine it would be way less harmful.
In terms of in-firms, what the HELL is that about. The uncertainty about what you’re getting into, about what to say and when, and the madness of rushing between places if you have back-to-back, it’s all nuts. I think the most important thing I would communicate is that no one cares if your hair is wet because you bailed on the PATH and had to walk aboveground, so just don’t get lost by trying to stay dry. Don’t avoid your friends, be good to them, it goes farther to show off your friends’ talents in front of a recruiter or lawyer (who’s hiring you because you’re a team player, by the way), than it does to try and monopolize conversations. Judge the kind of person a firm is looking for by the students you meet at their events. Do you like them? Good! Wednesday 3-5, “blackout” period can mean anything you want, just make sure you can answer your phone when the time comes. What a fiasco.
-Grateful Gambler
Response 7
Dear Obiter,
I present Infirm, a mantra to get you through the process
Makeup goes on at 6 AM
FML
Walking up the steps to buildings
FML
Winding through the PATH in heels
FML
Found a bathroom, check for eyebags
FML
Talking to yourself in public
FML
Taking the wrong elevator
FML
Thirsty, hungry, chapped lips, dying
FML
Tired and glad it’s over
FML
-Sleepless in School
Dear Obiter,
On Call Day, I bought a bottle of bourbon – what a perfect answer to the stress and uncertainty of in-firm week. As a law student, I understand that drinking does not solve problems, but I also know a drink makes them 40% easier to take.
When I went to the LCBO, I knew that I wanted a bourbon. Still, I wavered between different brands. Angel’s Envy? Blantons? Eagle Rare? The LCBO staff reminded me of our CDO staff. I saw them helping a few customers, but I was not sure how they would be able to help me. So I turned to the internet, and googled “what is the most prestigious bourbon?”
The limited store selection helped me narrow my options. That reminds me of the application process to OCIs to in-firms to Call Day’s narrowing of possible employers. When I started the recruitment process, I did not understand how ‘first choice’ is a blend of possibility and circumstance.
I picked Woodford Reserve as my first choice. It had many groups I was interested in – groups of flavours that is: “aromas of sweet vanilla, apricot, caramel and spice…followed by a long complex finish.” Perfect for the occasion. It also had a cork stopper, which meant that I could pop a bottle at 5, but also recork it if I did not get an offer.
On reflection, Call Day was okay. I was lucky to receive an offer, and from talking to friends who received nothing, I learned that you can only earn a chance at an offer. There were no celebrations with friends that day, and while that was too bad, I did have a chance to spend the evening with family. Woodford was the drink of choice, and I was glad to be with the people who helped me most throughout the recruitment process.
Value rating: **
LCBO#: 480624
-Job Parker Jr, for the Whine Advocate